Musk Media Training the BBC is a Must See

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The BBC's Hard Talk news interview program is feared and respected for grilling its guests. Its presenters personify the British public broadcaster’s public interest ethos by probing their subjects with tough questioning.

This interview with Elon Musk was not that.

Musk spontaneously agreed to a last-minute interview with BBC News —on Twitter Spaces (his home ground) — not giving the BBC home ground advantage, or the ability to edit and publish a recorded interview.

Musk 1, BBC 0.

A range of topics were discussed during the full 1 hour video, which you can watch here. I would like to draw your attention to these 4 very special minutes where Elon Musk turns the tables on BBC journalist James Clayton.

It’s like watching an executive media training session go horribly wrong —or delightfully right— depending on your point of view.

Tom Slater calls it a “car-crash interview in reverse.”

Here’s a transcript of the juicy exchange, with [[[notes from me as commentariat within square brackets]]]

Clayton:  do you accept that there's more misinformation on the platform? If it's not being policed in the same way?

Musk: I actually think there's less these days because we we've eliminated so many of the bots, which were pushing scams and spam. And previously, previous management turned a blind eye to the bots [[[ouch]]] because their bonuses were tied to user growth [[[OUCH!!]]]. And if your compensation is tied to user growth, well, you're not going to look too closely at some of the users. That's part of the problem. So I think we've got less misinformation because we don't have the bot problem that we used to do and we also have given a lot of attention to community notes, which corrects with community itself, correcting misinformation has been very effective.

Clayton: I would only just add that you know, we have spoken to [[[Twitter]]] people who have been sacked that used to be in content moderation. And we've spoken to people very recently who were involved in moderation and they say that there's not enough people to police this stuff, particularly around hate speech in the company. Is that one thing that..

Musk: you use Twitter, right. Do you see a rise in hate speech? just a personal anecdote, like do you? I don’t.

[[[Perfectly legit question. Seems to catch Clayton off guard for some reason]]]

Clayton: Personally, my For You page, I would see, I get more of that kind of content. Yeah, personally, but I'm not going to talk to, talk for the rest of Twitter.

Musk [[[smells blood]]]: You see more hate speech personally?

Clayton [[[should have taken a deep breath, thought about the question for a moment, but instead blurts out]]]: I would say I see more hateful content in that.

Musk [[[yep that’s the smell of blood]]]: Content that you don’t like? or hateful? describe a hateful thing?

Clayton [[[help?]]]: Yeah. I mean, you know, just content that will solicit a reaction or something that may include something that is slightly racist or slightly sexist, those kinds of those kinds of things.

[[[Clayton tries to start another sentence but Musk is in full predator mode now and cuts him off]]]

Musk: So, if something’s slightly sexist it should be banned. Is that what you’re saying?

Clayton [[[mommy?]]]: I'm not saying anything. [[[He did not just say that. Media training note: don’t ever, ever say what Clayton just said. You can say: “I didn’t say that” if that’s not what you said, but don’t ever say “I’m not saying anything.”]]]

Musk: Well, that’s curious. I’m trying to understand what you mean by hateful content. And I'm asking for specific examples. And you just said that if something is slightly sexist, that's hateful content, does that mean that it should be banned?  

Clayton [[[tries to steady himself]]]: you've asked me whether my feed, whether it's got less or more, I'd say it's got slightly more.

Musk: But I'm asking for examples. Can you name one example?

Clayton [[[realizes he’s been caught and now he can’t think straight]]]: I honestly don't know. I honestly, I don't. I'll tell you why. [[[here it comes]]] Because I don't use that For You feed anymore because I just don't particularly like it. [noooo!] A lot of people. A lot of people are quite similar. I only look at my following

[[[Musk is on him like Darth Vader now and cuts him off]]]:

Musk: You said you've seen more hateful content, but you can't name a single example. Not even one.

Clayton [[[completely loses it now]]]: I'm not sure I've used that feed for the last three or four weeks.

Musk: So how can you see the hateful content?

Clayton: because I've been…I've been using… I've been using Twitter since you've taken it over for the last six months.

Musk: so then you must have at some point seen that hateful content. I'm asking for one example.

Clayton: Right. [[[stammers]]] And, and, I'm saying

Musk [[[I have you now]]]: Then I say Sir, that you don't know what you're talking about.

Clayton: Oh really?

Musk: Yes, because you can't give me a single example of hateful content or even one tweet. And yet you've claimed that the hateful content was high. Well that's false.

Clayton [[[this is painful]]]: No, no, no… what I claim was, there are many organizations that say that kind of information is on the rise now, whether that has or not…and if you look at something like the Strategic Dialogue Institute in the UK, they will say that

Musk [[[eating dinner]]: people will say all sorts of nonsense. I'm literally asking you for a single example. And you can’t give one.

Clayton [[[what just happened]]]: right and as I already said, I don't use that feed, but I don't think this is getting anywhere actually [[[note: this is possibly the worst thing you can do in an interview, it’s such an obvious duck and hide]]]

[[[from here the exchange just becomes a spectacle of a lion tearing apart the carcass of a gazelle]]]

Musk: you said you experienced more hateful content, and then couldn't name a single example.

Clayton: And as I said, I have..

Musk: That’s absurd

Clayton: I haven't, I haven't actually looked at that feed.

Musk: But how would you know there’s hateful content?

Clayton: Because I'm saying that's what I saw a few weeks ago. I can't give you an exact example. Let's move on. We have we only have a certain amount of time.

///transcript ends///

Away from the politics, there’s a valuable lesson in here for business leaders and communications pros about how to deal with journalists, in situations —and this is important— only in situations where you suspect their questions are based on thin or non-existent evidence. Don’t do it just for kicks, you don’t want to pick a fight. But do feel free to ask probing questions about their questions if you think they’re not being on the level. Don’t ask who their sources are, they’re under no obligation to tell you. But there’s nothing wrong with asking journalists who are interviewing you to provide examples that underpin their questions or allegations.